On the one hand, Johnny Knoxville and his Dickhouse cohorts were quick to chastise Roger Ebert for posting a trenchant, albeit somewhat ill-timed, tweet about drink-driving in the wake of Ryan Dunn’s death; on the other, it seems as though half-assed wisecracks about the recent events in Norway are fair game.

Hypocrisy, much?

To wit:

If you must insist upon it though, let's just say that Priya has face value for days with her outstanding track record for being very, very jumpy. Like scream-bloody-murder-summer-camp-killing-spree jumpy.

This remark isn’t necessarily as crass as it seems to be at first glance, though. After all, there’s no need to assume the existence of malice when simple ignorance will suffice as an explanation. Even so… Really, guys?

To be 100% clear, I don’t have any objection to the content of the above-referenced blog post, merely the context in which it was made.  A guy gets drunk, drives like an asshole and kills himself, not to mention a close friend, in the process, and it’s too soon to pass comment; a xenophobic nutjob murders 77 innocent people and injures 242 more, and that’s a-okay.

One of the main reasons why I took the decision to scrap my old website and start over, as opposed to simply altering its focus, was the dawn of my new-found apolitical nature. This change didn’t happen overnight – if anything, it was a long time coming – but when it struck, it struck hard.

Simply put, the UK Parliamentary expenses scandal of 2009 irrevocably killed my interest in all things political, thereby rendering my site completely irrelevant. Although I knew I wanted to maintain an Internet presence of some sort, and my abject hatred for social networking sites meant that a stripped-down blog was always going to be the best way forward, the days of getting pissed off over something Bush, Blair, Brown or Obama thought, said or did were well and truly over.

Nowadays, the closest I get to paying attention to what’s going on in the realm of politics, on either side of the proverbial pond, involves watching Real Time With Bill Maher; even so, I couldn’t help but take a perverse sense of delight in watching the whole News International debacle unfold over the past few weeks.

Can it really be long before the Cameron-Clegg house of cards comes tumbling down around their ears? Here’s hoping. Will the loathsome Piers “Morgan” Moron lose his comfortable CNN job over allegations that he, too, was involved in this unsavory practice during his time with Trinity Mirror? Fingers crossed. Are Rupert Murdoch’s salad days really numbered? Let us pray (metaphorically, of course).

Sure, for every self-serving, cretinous little weasel who’s forced to commit figurative seppuku over this fiasco, a dozen more lie in wait, ready to resume the current status quo as soon as the dust has settled. We’ll never get ‘em all, but it sure is fun to try every now and again.

This is to be the second of three re-uploaded posts from my old website. The last one will be along in due course; in the meantime, I urge you to cast an eye over this interview with the one and only Henry Rollins, conducted back in February 2008.

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Henry Rollins: singer, songwriter, poet, television presenter, author, actor, publisher, spoken word artist, political activist and “aging alternative icon” (his words, not mine). A Jack of all trades and a master of most, Rollins has come to mean many different things to many different people since he first entered the public consciousness in 1981 as the new frontman for seminal Californian punk outfit Black Flag.

Maybe you remember him from Rollins Band, his post-Flag collective which produced a well-known single – and MTV favorite – called ‘Liar’, among others. Perhaps you’ve caught his television show on the Independent Film Channel, which blends Rollins’ trademark cutting social commentary with live in-studio performances from artists such as Queens of the Stone Age and The Mars Volta. Horror buffs may recall his recent turn as a retired Marine Corps officer in the direct-to-DVD slasher sequel Wrong Turn 2: Dead End, while fans of the Jackass franchise are likely to recollect his memorable guest appearance in the first feature-length movie starring Johnny Knoxville and his band of merry miscreants. And so on, and so on, and so forth.

Ultimately, it matters not how you know him. The important part is that you probably do have some awareness of the man and his work, one way or another, and the prolific nature of Rollins’ output means that he’s never far from the public eye. When his heavily-tattooed forearms and muscled physique are taken into account – traits which serve to make him more recognizable still in an era which increasingly emphasizes style over substance – it’s hard to see him as anything other than a bona fide renaissance man for the 21st century.

On the off-chance that you’ve never heard the name “Henry Rollins” before today, however, it may prove edifying to know a couple of things about the man before you continue reading this interview. For instance, he has undertaken a series of tours with the United Service Organization in order to meet and entertain American troops who are stationed abroad; this willingness to put aside personal politics, which encompass a vehement dislike of George W. Bush and opposition to wars of all kinds, grants him membership to a small club of left-wing USO supporters which includes comedian (and would-be senator) Al Franken, as well as actor Robin Williams. He is also an outspoken advocate of gay rights, while being a staunch heterosexual himself, and he spent his formative years in a Maryland military school, which almost certainly helped to shape his strong work ethic.

Never one to rest on his laurels, 2008 is already shaping up to be a manic year for Henry. In January, he completed an 18-date European spoken-word tour before jetting off to South Africa in order to perform in Johannesburg and Cape Town. A North American jaunt occupies the bulk of February and March, before more shows in Europe beckon; furthermore, he also has another book in the pipeline and is endeavoring to pre-record as many episodes of his radio show, Harmony in My Head, as possible, in order to keep the program on the air during his grueling touring schedule.

Despite having all of the above projects on his plate, and probably several more besides, Mr. Rollins was kind enough to spend some time answering my questions. Due to the nature of this website, combined with Rollins’ recent inclination towards social and political commentary over and above his musical activities, the bulk of the enquiries pertain to matters such as the War on Terror, George W. Bush’s perennial misbehavior and the forthcoming US general election; nevertheless, Black Flag, the state of the music industry, modern technology and workout tips also cropped up during the course of our tête-à-tête.

Without further ado, then…

Your dedication to your work, and to striving toward making the world a better place, is laudable indeed; however, do you sometimes feel as though you’re fighting a losing battle when you read the news and visit war-torn regions across the globe? After all, Bill Hicks warned us all of the dangers posed by the Bush dynasty, religious fundamentalism, censorship, intolerance and the ‘War on Drugs’ a long time ago and, listening to his work now, I can’t help but feel saddened to think that we’ve ostensibly learned nothing in the fourteen years since his death. Or, conversely, do you think we’re making some genuine headway on these fronts?

As soon as you give up, when you say they have won, then you give them all they want. In fact, you finally letting off is factored into their equation. They know that there will be a certain amount of people who will stop questioning and stop rousing rabbles, so to speak, and that’s why you can never relent. It’s that simple. I do think many things are getting better. I see improvement all over the place. There are millions of people in America who are pushing for change and trying to make things better. How can you turn your back on that?

As an outspoken critic of the war in Iraq, who has nevertheless put his feelings on the matter aside in order to tour military hospitals and meet those who have been most directly-affected by the conflict, what’s your general understanding of the troops’ attitude to the situation? Are they as angry as Michael Moore would have us believe, courtesy of Fahrenheit 9/11, or do they still stand behind President Bush and his war in spite of the horrors they’ve seen and suffered? WMD or no WMD, do they generally feel that the invasion was legitimate and necessary?

I don’t think you can paint them all with one brush. I get letters from soldiers of all branches all the time and it’s everything from dissatisfaction with Bush and the occupation of Iraq to them trying to convince me that they are doing the right thing. I think as this awful [conflict] drags on, and these guys and gals go into their 4th and 5th rotation, you will see things start to fray. They are, after all, just people. The troops, I like. This war, I don’t.

There has obviously been a lot of ire directed at the Bush administration over the last few years, particularly since the contentious invasion of Iraq, and many – myself included – would say that the bulk of this criticism is well-deserved indeed. However, it seems to me that much of Tony Blair’s culpability with regard to the War on Terror has been buried beneath an avalanche of anti-US sentiment, leaving Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and co. to bear the brunt of the  world’s odium alone. From what you’ve seen and heard on your travels, do you get the feeling that Blair’s role in supporting the war is being remembered accurately?

His role isn’t buried around my place by a long shot. I call him the “Ass-Vacuum of George Bush”, Bush, of course, being the “Butcher of Baghdad.” Tony Blair will get his whuppin’ via history. It will take a while for the dust to settle for everyone to fully understand what a little coward he turned out to be. It’s the end of an age. John Howard out, Blair out, Bush out. Things will change.

George W. Bush now has less than a year in office before he retires to his ranch in Crawford, Texas. Is there anything he could do over the next 11 months to redeem himself in your eyes and right some of the wrongs for which he’s been responsible since the year 2000?

Telling the truth and reporting to jail, that would be a start. Past that, no. He’ll sell the ranch at some point, he’s a city boy like me.

Several left-wing commentators, including Christopher Hitchens and Nick Cohen, have provided vocal support to the War on Terror despite their liberal leanings. Their reasons for so doing are varied, but a common theme was that of opposition to Saddam and the Taliban which, they felt, was perfectly congruent with their leftist distaste for tyranny and oppression. Have you ever found it difficult to reconcile your opposition to the WoT with the unpleasant nature of the Ba’ath Party and the Taliban, whose policies towards dissidents, women and social minorities (especially homosexuals) seem to fly in the face of your own liberal proclivities?

Not at all. The WoT is one thing. The invasion and occupation of Iraq is another, so is the exacerbating of Iran. The Taliban is fucked and they destroyed what was left of Afghanistan and they are truly bad guys. As far as Saddam, if the Iraqi people couldn’t take him out, they deserve him like we deserve Bush. It’s not for us to remove him. If we’re going to be the clearing house of whoop-ass then let’s go to the countries with no oil, like North Korea. The truth is, the Bush administration and their apologists don’t give a fuck about the Iraqi people. They want them to hurry up and submit so America can go in there and do business. If Bush was in Iraq to liberate those people, he would have gone in with an exit plan. There wasn’t one because there was never going to be an exit.

Some of the “allies” we in the West have made during the War on Terror – especially President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan and the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan – are somewhat less than savory in themselves, and we also seem happy to maintain a close friendship with the thoroughly-unpleasant leaders of Saudi Arabia. Is this “Better the devil you know…” attitude a fair stance to adopt in troubled and complicated times, or is it redolent of ill-disguised hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans and New Labour?

We do business with motherfuckers all the time. Our strange-as-hell relationship with Pakistan and their ISI isn’t new but it sure is curious. If a country has oil and they submit to America, then they have a chance of fair treatment as slaves. If they rebel or arm-up to protect themselves, then they are a rogue nation and a threat to all the good peoples of the world. It’s pretty glaring, the hypocrisy of all this. 

On February 11, 2008, the Pentagon confirmed that it plans to charge six Guantanamo Bay inmates with crimes relating to the 9/11 attacks. These trials will probably be held before military tribunals, as opposed to civilian courts, and prosecutors apparently plan to seek the death penalty for the defendants. Given the grave nature of the allegations, not to mention the potentially-severe punishments if the accused are found guilty, shouldn’t transparency and legitimacy be the key goals of any legal proceedings which ensue? Is the Pentagon’s mooted plan to hold the trials behind closed doors at all defensible in your view?

I think it would be best for full disclosure, of course, but they will never allow that. So, no, I can’t stick [up] for that at all and have to wonder about the guilt of these people, such is my distrust of my government.

Given that the confessions of some of the prisoners in question, including those pertaining to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, stemmed from the use of infamous interrogation tactics such as waterboarding, it seems likely that the issue of torture will be brought to the forefront of the international debate once more. What’s your view of such procedures, and do you think they’re ever justifiable?

I am not a fan of torture. I believe the experts that say you don’t get good results. These guys just like to maim motherfuckers, that’s all. They should just cop to it.

Little over a year has elapsed since the highly-controversial execution of Saddam Hussein. Now that the dust has settled and most of the raw emotion subsided, how do you feel about the way in which the dictator was treated by his captors? Would you rather he’d been imprisoned instead of being killed, and do you think his trial would have been fairer if it had taken place outside Iraq?

I was in Dubai when that happened. I watched it online. I feel now the same way I felt then. I think the Shi’a blew it. They could have shown the world they were for peace and the future by giving him life in prison. I think the death penalty is despicable. I don’t know much about the actual trial itself as to its fairness, etc.

With a general election looming just around the corner, what are your hopes for the next administration, be it Democrat or Republican? 

We have to get out of Iraq, really look at who hates us and ask why and not just heap bumper-sticker rhetoric at it, stop this destruction of the very foundations of America and stop the borrowing. Easier said than done, but that’s what has to happen. The current brand of capitalism is very, very destructive. It should have died with Milton Friedman.

As a long-standing supporter of equality for gays and lesbians, does it disturb you to note that Democratic forerunners Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have both refused to come out in favor of marriage rights for gay and lesbian couples? Do you think there’s any credibility in the reasoning used by both candidates – essentially, that the country “isn’t ready” for such a move – especially as one could argue that, in the not-too-distant past, many Americans wouldn’t have been ‘ready’ for a black or female President either?

They’re politicians. That makes them at least mostly full of it. If either one was to come out in favor of gay marriage, they would lose votes, it’s as simple as that. It’s pathetic that so many people are stuck in the Stone Age. I don’t know what else to say about it. It’s a damn shame they lack the courage to say ‘No’ to this bullshit. I guess I’ll have to do it for them.

In The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins cites a 1999 Gallup poll which “asked Americans whether they would vote for an otherwise well-qualified person who was a woman (95 per cent would), Roman Catholic (94 per cent would), Jew (92 per cent), black (92 per cent), Mormon (79 per cent), homosexual (79 per cent) or atheist (49 per cent).” He also points out that “[t]he state of atheists in America today is on a par with that of homosexuals fifty years ago.” After eight years of George W. Bush’s rule, during which the insidious effect of the Christian Right has become all too apparent, do you think that these pro-religion and anti-atheist tendencies are so deeply ingrained within US politics that we’ll never get rid of them? Do you think we’ll see an openly-atheistic president within our lifetimes?

That’s a good question. I don’t think a person could get elected if they were openly not pulling for some god. For myself, religion has always been for the weak-minded, but that’s just me. I don’t think there ever needs to be a mention of anyone’s religion in an election. It’s really no-one’s business. I am sick of people making their religion my business. I think in the last eight years, the nutcases have been ruling the roost, but that’s going to end and they will have to go back to their television studios and sell their protein powder to their broke-ass flock. 

Black Flag are now viewed as forebears of the hardcore punk movement which blossomed in the 1970s and 1980s. Since the post-grunge era of the mid-1990s, which saw bands such as Green Day, Rancid, NOFX and Blink-182 – most of which played up their “punk” credentials – achieve global success, have the original ideals of punk rock been buried beneath a landslide of studded belts, spiked hair and smudged eyeliner or do they live on elsewhere? Which, if any, of today’s better-known bands are carrying the torch for artistic integrity and unfettered creativity?

When I hear these bands, I hear a lot of derivative music. Since no one makes me listen to this stuff, I really don’t care what they get up to. I think there’s a ton of really amazing bands out there making very interesting music. Dax Riggs, Bark Bark Bark, the Mae Shi, Deerhoof, Wolf Eyes, Yellow Swans, etc. This is the kind of music I listen to from the ‘new’ bin. People who call themselves ‘Punk Rock’ kind of lose before they start. Just play and don’t worry about what it is. Of those bands you mentioned, I think Tim Armstrong of Rancid is a really good songwriter, I think he’s coming from something real. Not to say that the others are not, but it’s very obvious with him. 

On a related note, what do you make of the Sex Pistols’ sporadic reunion tours? Are they a justified cashing-in on the part of the genre’s godfathers, reaping the rewards that Malcolm McLaren denied them at the time, or, on the contrary, do they represent the money-grubbing acts of four people who have sold out their past by turning a once-important movement into a pantomime charade?

Justified? What law are they breaking? Who made you go to their show? Who gives a fuck what they do? If you want to go, go. If you don’t, do something else. Johnny Lydon doesn’t care either way! He would probably tell you the whole thing was only a charade. All these things are elective, you can do what you want as far as attending and in that, long may it wave. I know [Steve] Jones: for him, it’s probably just a laugh. It’s nothing I would ever want to be a part of if the band I was in wanted to do some awful reunion.

In this age of pre-release leaks and widespread BitTorrent downloading, combined with decreasing record sales and bands like Radiohead seeking to break the mold by striking out on their own (at least to some extent), what do you think will happen to the standard contract-record-release-tour pattern? Does it have a future?

That’s a good question. I don’t know. I think in the lower ranks, little acts, like me, will always tour and release records but, for the more corporate elements, it could be all downloads and pay-per-view. I think there will always be an interest in live music and bands who want to get out there and hit it. It’s just too great an experience to go away altogether.

You’ve said that you have no objection to illegal downloading of music, on the basis that you’d “rather be heard than paid.” Does the same principle apply to the use of video-sharing sites such as YouTube, upon which footage from your spoken-word shows can be viewed by millions without any money changing hands? How about sites which stream full-length Hollywood movies, including your own, free of charge? You’re in something of a unique position as a musician, actor and spoken-word artist in the sense that all three of the standard avenues for broadcast of your work – record stores, movie theatres and DVD vendors – are potentially under threat as a result of the all-pervasive influence of modern technology.

For myself, I don’t care. What others do, I don’t know. For myself, I would rather buy the band’s record or buy a DVD rather than steal it. That’s just how I am wired. Sales of all my stuff is just fine so if there’s downloading of my stuff, I think it’s mainly bootlegs, which to me are really cool. My problem is when the guy films me and then sells it on DVD-R on eBay for a lot of money, and some kid gets a crappy shaky-cam product with bad audio and some guy makes money off someone he treats like an asshole.

How gratifying were the positive reviews for Wrong Turn 2, especially considering that horror movie sequels – and particularly those of a direct-to-DVD nature – are usually derided by critics? Would you have liked to see the film given a theatrical release or were you happy for it to remain low-key?

I don’t give a fuck how the critics like it. I didn’t read any of the reviews. I never, ever read anything written about me. For me, it was a good job. I was happy for the work and hope the director Joe Lynch uses me again. I have a copy of it on a shelf of my office. I did a lot of press for that film because Joe asked me to and I really like the guy so I did it. Past that, I didn’t think about the film at all after we wrapped out. I usually just buy a used copy of the films I’m in used on Amazon.com or at a truck stop.

How much time does it take to prepare each episode of Harmony in My Head?

Hours and hours. I give that a lot of attention. I really like putting that show together. I could do it in less time but it wouldn’t be the same. I just put together two that I will do from the road very soon, they are going to rock!

Are you still as keen on working out as you once were? How do you find time to stay in shape while you’re on the road? Are there any exercise tips you’d like to pass on to those who are keen to get fit but don’t know where/how to begin?

I work out much differently than I used to. I go for more reps and a higher heart rate. Gyms are all around. I don’t know what to advise though, everyone’s different.

Your early days with Black Flag were noted for a certain level of onstage intensity, and, looking at some footage from your recent spoken-word shows, it seems as though your anger and frustration haven’t dimmed with the passing of time. Do you feel happier and more relaxed as a person these days, or do you find it hard to step back from your work when there are still so many things in the world which piss you off?

I am not, and never have been, a relaxed or happy person. I am just not wired that way, I guess. I can’t step back from the work. I am the work. I see no separation.

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Many thanks to Henry for taking the time to answer my questions, especially in such thoughtful and verbose fashion. The photograph above was taken by Ziv Koren during Mr. Rollins’ trip to Tel Aviv for his Uncut From Israel television special.

Now please, switch off the television set, put away the confetti, and do something interesting, productive or otherwise enjoyable with your day, instead of squandering it by watching the nuptials of two people who wouldn’t take the time to hand you a bucket of water if you were on fire.

This is to be the first of three re-uploaded posts from my old website. The others will be along in due course; in the meantime, please enjoy this interview with comedian, writer, actor and all-’round good guy, David Cross.

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Victoria Station, Main Concourse. Thursday, June 21, 2007. 4:59pm.

I’m getting decidedly nervous. The crowd on the concourse seems to be swelling with every passing moment, courtesy of signal problems which have resulted in widespread delays to all southbound trains, and the mass of bodies jostling for position in front of the departure boards is hardly helping to alleviate my already-fraught frame of mind. As the station’s digital clock display changes to 5:00pm, I wipe my sweaty palms on my trousers for the umpteenth time and begin to scan the multitudinous faces before me once more.

Let’s rewind to approximately 24 hours earlier. I’d just arrived at the 100 Club on Oxford Street, and had been politely – indeed, sweetly – informed that, due to an unfortunate and unforeseeable chain of events, the interview for which I’d arrived would have to be rescheduled for the following day. Later on, at 10:45pm on the 20th, I was introduced to my prospective interviewee, who genially suggested that we meet at Victoria, an hour-and-a-half or so before my coach was due to depart, where we’d find somewhere to have a chat.

So it came to pass that I found myself waiting by the flower-stand in the aforementioned station, fidgeting nervously and sneaking endless sideways glances at the clock as my eyes searched the throng of irritable commuters.

Before I have time to register the fact, he’s standing before me: David Cross, actor and comedian extraordinaire. You may know him from his critically-acclaimed stand-up work, or perhaps you’ll remember him as Tobias Fünke, the latent homosexual never-nude from Arrested Development, the best sitcom to emerge from American shores since Seinfeld. Maybe you’ll recognise him from his roles in the Men in Black movies, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and Scary Movie 2, or you may never have heard of him at all. If you fall into the final group, seek out one of his live CDs (Shut Up, You Fucking Baby! or It’s Not Funny, both of which are out on Sub Pop Records) before buying all three of the Arrested Development DVD sets. You can thank me later.

Within five minutes we’re sitting in the food court above the station, bottles of water – and, in David’s case, a bagel – sitting amid the tangled dictaphone wires on our tiny table.

So, David, it’s been three years or so since you were last in London. Are you pleased to be back?

Yeah. I mean, I’m glad to be back doing it the way I’m doing it, too. There’s a lot less… I don’t want to say “pressure”, but it’s less work and more fun for me because it’s a looser line-up and I do less time. It’s also a club, as opposed to a theater, so it doesn’t have that feeling to it. It’s more fun this way.

Have you ever got a handle on how British audiences have become aware of your work, seeing as Mr. Show [Cross’s cult sketch program, which ran between 1995 and 1998 on America’s HBO channel and was co-written with Bob Odenkirk] was never screened on these shores?

Well, I think initially it’s just the comedy community – people who are comedy nerds and are way into it.  If you ask most hardcore comedy fans in America about British comics, they’ll know people that the rest of the country has never heard of and never will. They seek out that stuff, and people show them tapes and things. So initially that way, and I’m sure Arrested Development has a lot to do with it too.

The shows you’re doing at present are billed as David Cross and Friends: How did they come about? Were they your idea?

No. I’m the least proactive guy with my career! Both this time and last time [I was over here], it was a case of somebody else saying “Hey, you want to go to England and do some shows?” “Okay!”

So did you pick the acts with whom you wanted to appear?

The comedians? Yup.

Are they people with whom you’re friends? Have you worked with them in the past?

Yeah. They’re all from New York, or live in New York, and we do shows together all the time over there. I mean, not just the four of us, but we’re a part of the community which is always going around the same six or seven shows.

There are four of you performing each night, plus different a special guest for each show. How did the guests get involved?

That was Olivia Wingate, who’s promoting it. We’re trying to get Daniel Kitson down here, but he won’t commit; the New Pornographers are playing tonight. Just various people, really.

According to the Internet Movie Database, you have seven film and television projects due for release later this year or sometime in 2008. Are you putting comedy on the back-burner for a while, or are you doing tours and shows alongside your acting commitments?

Again, that’s part of the proactive thing, or lack of it. When I did the tours in the States that resulted in the CDs, that was somebody else putting that together. I was always… This is nothing I’m proud of, I’m not bragging about it, but I have no… I really should get off my ass and figure something out! But, once I get a new hour, I think I’ll be pretty happy about touring. I mean, it’s fun, and I really like this particular format, too.

It’s also been three years since It’s Not Funny came out, so is another album likely to follow when you finally get back out on the road?

Yeah. Nothing is in the works at present, but I just came from the Bonnaroo Festival – a big festival in the States – and that was the first time I’d done forty-five minutes of material for a while. I’m glad I did that, to get ready for these shows, and that’s just the nature of it. Especially the way I write onstage, and I don’t sit down at home; it’s almost exponential, where you start off with a little bit and just build up your material, and if I continue working at it when I go back home I imagine I’ll be ready to go back out in the Fall.

So a new record may come from that?

Yeah, maybe.

Do you tape every show on a tour and cherry-pick the best ones for inclusion?

Yeah, exactly. The first one [Shut Up, You Fucking Baby!] was part of a tour that was, like, twenty-one cities, I think, and I took 95% of the material from two different shows, one in Portland and one in Atlanta. You’re kind of stymied by the sound quality too: the shows sound different, and you have to pick the ones you want to go with. The second CD [It’s Not Funny] was pretty much one show. I think I did four shows at The Improv in Washington, D.C., and there wasn’t much editing for that one.

The most infamous recent event in the stand-up world was Michael Richards’ onstage meltdown late last year, which saw The Laugh Factory outlaw the use of the word “nigger” when performing at their club. They also imposed punishments, including fines and bans, for performers who break this rule. What do you make of this kind of censorship?

Well, I think it’s silly. It’s reactionary, it’s not thoughtful… It’s well-meaning, but ultimately it’s stupid and childish. I can understand if the club-owner was particularly offended and can see him making some sort of rule based upon that, but the idea that… I mean, if I said it in a different context would that be allowed, or would I be fined?

From what I understand, context doesn’t matter.

That’s ridiculous. It’s the intent behind the word that counts. It’s language!

Do you think that “clean” comedy albums, sanitized for sale in Wal-Mart, can really be far behind?

I think it’s already happened. Not necessarily just in Wal-Mart, but Best Buy, Wal-Mart, a lot of those huge chains will not carry certain things. They won’t carry certain videogames because of their content, there are certain TV shows they won’t carry.

So does that constitute a certain kind of censorship in itself?

Well, not really. I wouldn’t call it “censorship”, because now – with the Internet – you can pretty much get anything you want anyway.

Do you think American comedy is starting to get more politicized again, after an initial post-9/11 lull?

Not that I can see. Do you mean stand-up?

Yeah.

No, not really.

Even George Carlin announced a vague “truce” with Bush after 9/11, leaving you as one of the few comics out there who was still pushing that kind of material.

Well, that’s the thing: I’m not anymore. I haven’t made any jokes about Bush or the Bush
administration in maybe two years. It wasn’t a calculated decision. When I was initially doing it, there was a sense of urgency and outrage that I, for various reasons, don’t have anymore. You become inured to it. Maybe on some conscious level I thought “Enough’s enough.” I mean, I’ve said it already. I’m certainly happy that I was on record as saying it in 2000 and 2001, but now – especially when you have Lewis Black, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report and Bill Maher – you have people who do this every night. The voice is out there.

The run-up to the invasion of Iraq saw many public American figures – the Dixie Chicks being a prime example – excoriated for speaking out against Bush. Did you ever fear a similar backlash amid the atmosphere you once described as “flag-waving, cheerleading bullshit”?

No! I’d have welcomed it.

Really?

Yeah, because it would have meant that I was on the radar. I’m actually kind of under the radar, so no-one really gave a shit.

Courtesy of certain right-wing factions within the Stateside media, one almost got the impression that 1950s McCarthyism had returned, with any criticism of Bush being immediately dubbed “anti-American” or “unpatriotic.” Was this really the case?

Well, I think that impression is a little exaggerated, because McCarthyism found people being accused of something they weren’t and losing their jobs and livelihoods as a result, without any ability to reconcile that. What we had was a small minority of people who were very loud and happened to have a public platform from which they could say the same things [about the need to support Bush] over and over. It helped people! I mean, Bill Maher lost one show but he went and did another one. Phil Donahue lost a show, but I don’t know anybody who was really… There was no fear, like under McCarthyism. It was just annoying more than anything else.

During your spat with Larry the Cable Guy, you said that the country was in the grip of “vague American values and anti-intellectual pride.” This was a couple of years ago: Has the situation improved at all?

I think it has, yeah. The biggest news was the 2006 election, and Congress swinging back to the Democrats, which – if nothing else – means that things will be investigated where they wouldn’t have been before. I’m sure news will be dripping out for the next eight to ten years about some of the heinous things that happened and were covered up. The President’s popularity is historically-low, and he’s completely ineffective. That’s a massive change from 2004.

Do you think the Democrats stand a chance of taking the next national election?

I do, but not because they’re going to be particularly effective. I think the Republican slate is just doomed. I mean, it’s terrible. Their knight in shining armor is Fred Thompson – the guy’s a former lobbyist – and it’s gonna be ugly. It’s the Democrats’ to lose, and they could lose it. I’m not particularly excited by any of them, although I do like [John] Edwards and [Barack] Obama.

Who would you like to see on the Democratic ticket, ideally?

Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson.

Ha! I was going to follow that by asking if you’d ever consider campaigning for your preferred candidates…

That’d be weird. But yeah, sure!

Among the American Left, there seem to be two basic opinions with regard to Ralph Nader: firstly, that he offers a genuine choice at the ballot by campaigning for issues that the Democrats won’t touch; and, secondly, that he splinters the left-wing vote and helps to hand victory to the Republicans. Do you fall into either camp?

I think he’s… I admire what he’s trying to do, but I also think he’s arrogant. He certainly has an ego. He feels like he’s an incorruptible truth-teller, but he’d be a terrible president. I don’t think he’s diplomatic at all, and my guess is that even the most altruistic and well-intentioned left-winger – such as Dennis Kucinich – would find that things work a certain way, y’know? We need oil!

As a final politics-related question, it was reported in the news this week that Bush has agreed to reinstate Palestinian aid if the new cabinet is confirmed to be Hamas-free. Doesn’t this undermine his constant use of “democratic” principles to justify everything he’s done since 9/11?

Yes, that is true, at least in theory. Again, though, he has never done anything that he’s said he was going to do. He hasn’t accomplished anything. As quickly as they announced their ‘Road Map to Peace’ – or whatever the fuck they called it – it was abandoned. And with everything that’s going on in Lebanon, and all the saber-rattling with Iran, he pretty much has to [get Palestine onside].

Right, moving on! You’re doing a residency at the 100 Club, perhaps best-known for its 1976 punk festival which featured performances from the Sex Pistols and The Clash. Were you ever a punk fan?

Oh, yeah. God, yeah. Absolutely. There were the two you just mentioned, the Buzzcocks, The Stranglers, The Damned, the Ramones, West Coast punk…

So is it meaningful for you, in that sense, to be playing there?

Well, it’s not something I consciously think about, but you do walk in and go “Cool!”. It’s not like I walk in and feel imbued with the spirit of Joe Strummer, though.

You’ve been very outspoken in the past in your criticism of manufactured rock bands, including Staind and Creed. Do you think the music industry’s in a healthier state now?

I think that, literally every month, there’s another really good album out from a band which may not be reinventing music but is still putting out strong, interesting stuff. The last Modest Mouse album is great, Arcade Fire… I was just at Bonnaroo, and every band I saw just got better and better. I didn’t get to see that many because of my schedule, but I did see The Little Ones, Black Angel, The Roots and Tool. That was a really good festival.

You also performed at All Tomorrow’s Parties over here last year. Would you ever curate one of these events, if they asked you to?

Oh yeah, sure. I have a lot of friends in bands. Absolutely. I sort of did one at South by Southwest this year, a day-long thing with two stages and had a bunch of bands playing. It was good.

Given the current tendency for bands to reform in search of their glory days, are there any groups or artists you’d try to reunite for a festival appearance?

I’d like to get Scott Joplin and George Gershwin together to collaborate!  Actually, I tell you who I’d like to see: The Cavedogs. I saw a couple of their reunion shows and they were great. Who else? Maybe the Sex Pistols? That would be funny. It would be anathema to their ethos, though.

It’s generally something of a mess when they get back together, from what I’ve seen.

Yeah. Weren’t they supposed to do shows, and they cancelled?

I think some shows may have been discussed for later this year, as it’s the 30th anniversary of Never Mind the Bollocks in October. If memory serves, they last played over here about five years ago when they did a mini-festival called “Pistols at the Palace.” It was… Interesting, in a train-wreck sort of way.

I can imagine!

Are you interested in directing music videos at all?

I actually directed a video for The Black Keys, for ‘10 A.M. Automatic’, which I like. They’re really funny in it, and it’s good. I also had an idea for …Trail of Dead, which I really liked: it was inspired by La Jetée, the French film which inspired Twelve Monkeys. It would all be photographs – or stills, should I say – and I think they misunderstood my intent. I think they thought it was going to be really violent and bloody, but it absolutely wasn’t.

Judging by your rant on the Season Two DVD set, and from reading interviews with your co-stars conducted around the time of the show’s cancellation, there seemed to be a lot of resentment and anger at the way Fox treated Arrested Development.

Oh, yeah. Here’s the big, dark secret nobody talks about: Fox didn’t like the show. They didn’t like the fact that it kept winning Emmys and being mentioned as one of the ten best shows on TV. It was expensive, they didn’t get along with the producer, they didn’t like the politics of it. It didn’t do anything for them. That show stayed on only as a result of Emmys, Golden Globes and other awards like that. They really didn’t like it. And – I swear to God, although it sounds like I’m making this up – I don’t think Rupert Murdoch liked it. I don’t know that for a fact, of course. There were a couple of people [at Fox] who championed it but, outside of those people, the network simply didn’t like it.

The show almost ended on a positive note for its fans, with the implication that a feature film adaptation may follow. Is that still a vague possibility?

I would underscore “vague”, and make it in bold letters, with an asterisk. Then, when you look at the asterisk, you scroll down to the bottom of the page and it says “extremely vague”. I don’t think it’s going to happen.

But if they called you up and said “We’ve got the green light”, would you sign on?

Oh, fuck yeah. Absolutely.

There seemed to be a lot of camaraderie between the cast members…

Yeah, there was. Absolutely. It was fun. The other problem we faced is an antiquated and ineffective ratings system that doesn’t truly reflect [modern trends]: TiVo and DVR, lots of people watching in a room as opposed to one, and so on. People don’t watch TV in the same way they did in 1972, and yet they’re using the same ratings system.

What do you make of the trend towards watching TV shows online or downloading episodes via the Internet? Do you think this will have an adverse effect upon shows like Arrested, which receive critical claim but lower ratings than the networks would like?

I don’t know. That’s going to be the new way in which you figure out what your market is, and I’m sure someone in Hollywood right now is being paid a lot of money just to figure out how to make money from the Internet.

So it’ll end up being harnessed by the industry in the same way music downloads have been?

Probably, yeah.

At the end of It’s Not Funny, you told an anecdote about meeting Scott Stapp [the one-time Creed vocalist, about whom Cross has been particularly critical] at a celebrity poker tournament. In the same vein, what was it like working with James Lipton on Arrested?

I’ll preface this by saying that working with him was quite fun, and I think he did a great job. However, it was also awkward. Mitch Hurwitz [the creator of Arrested] mentioned the idea and was like “Wouldn’t this be great?” and then, when the day came, I was kinda nervous. I mean, I really shit on him in my stand-up, and I have nothing but absolute, utter contempt for what he does. It saddens me, it’s disheartening. It’s upsetting to me to watch somebody so pandering, to people who are marginally talented at best. And what they’re talented at is being successful! A celebration of this… I mean, he’s had really good people on there [Inside the Actors Studio, Lipton’s series on the Bravo cable channel], but he’s also had fucking Ben Affleck, you know? It’s a joke. It disgusts me, just on a human level. And so I went to his trailer – and we had tiny trailers, literally tiny, for the first season – and he’s sitting there, facing the mirror, which is by the door. Just sitting there, which was odd. I came in, like “Hey”, whatever. I never said anything, never alluded to the fact that I’d said these things during my stand-up, I had no idea whether he knew or not. And we sat there for a good twenty minutes or so and had this sort of chit-chat about nothing. He kept talking about his plane – he flies – and he talked about flying a lot. I was just sitting there going “Oh. Wow. Really? Uh-huh. Mmmm. Okay.” But it was fine in the end.

Is this something which occurs with greater frequency now, as you become more successful, meeting people you’ve attacked onstage?

Yeah! It happened just recently, in fact. These guys were super-cool, though. Very recently, maybe three weeks ago, somebody somewhere posted an audio-clip of a show I’d done years ago in Austin, Texas. Literally, it must have been five or six years ago. In the middle of it, somebody heckled or something – I honestly don’t remember doing this riff – and I guess The String Cheese Incident must have been playing, because I started going off on them and then I started talking about hippies, and hippie bands. Somebody posted it, and then The String Cheese Incident posted it on their website, which shows that they have a really good sense of humor. I’d said, like “I’ve never heard their music, but I imagine it’s terrible” and just went off on that. And I ran into those guys at Bonnaroo, and they were totally cool! They asked me to introduce them on the Main Stage, which I couldn’t actually do because I had my own show at the same time, but they were really, really cool. They were awesome.

There was a rumor going around that Zach Braff wanted you to reprise your role as Tobias during the sixth season of Scrubs. Now that Scrubs has been renewed for a seventh – and, apparently, final – season, is this still a possibility?

You know, you’d really have to ask them. I haven’t talked to them or investigated it further. It’s really not my place to, either. I think it’s a funny idea, and hopefully the script will be good.

Are you still into drugs as much as you once were?

No. I’m still into the fond memories I have [of doing drugs], but I haven’t done hallucinogenics in… Well, I did mushrooms with my girlfriend about two years ago but otherwise, no. I’m forty-three now.

A few years ago you were writing on your website about your plans to buy a club in New York. What happened there?

Yeah, we were getting close to it, my friends and I. It fell through because of our own naïveté. I mean, we didn’t know what the fuck we were doing! I’m kinda glad it didn’t happen, because it would be a big headache, but I’m still with the same group of people and we’re still looking to do something.

Every time I read anything about you in the media, the same two names crop up: Bill Hicks and Lenny Bruce.

That’s because they’re recycling the press release! That’s all. It was written once and now everyone’s recycling the same thing.

Do the analogies mean anything to you, or do they just represent lazy journalism?

I think it’s lazy journalism. I don’t think I’m like Lenny Bruce at all, because the [societal] context is completely different. I’m probably closer to Bill Hicks, but I’m not nearly as good or articulate or economic with my ideas as he was. We have the same ideas about things, but he’s a better comic.

Were you influenced by either of them?

Absolutely. I was definitely influenced by Bill Hicks. Well, maybe less ‘influenced’ than ‘inspired by’. When I first met him, I was doing stuff that I do now, so maybe I wasn’t directly influenced by him. But he was certainly inspiring.

Are you still enjoying living in New York?

Oh, I love it. I love it.

So when job opportunities arise in Los Angeles, do you hesitate to accept them given your oft-voiced dislike for the place?

Well, no. The thing is, I don’t actually have to move. I wouldn’t do another series, unless it was Arrested Development, as that was very special. TV means you live there pretty much six months of the year, but when you shoot a movie that’s three months at most.

You wrote an article for New York Magazine once, in which you gave advice to people on approaching celebrities, and pointed out that criticizing the celebrity’s friends is never a good idea. Does this really happen?

Oh, yeah! I mean, it doesn’t happen all the time, but I’ve had a number of people who will make fun in that way. Like “Hey, man you’re fucking funny, but what’s up with The Strokes, though? How come you hang out with those guys?” Or “What’s up with Janeane Garofalo? She’s not funny at all.” Just shit like that. I mean, why do it? They’re friends of mine! Obviously I disagree with you, and I think they’re good musicians or good comedians, depending on whom they’re talking about. Yeah, I get that. Again, it doesn’t happen a lot.

In another interview from a few years ago, you said that one of your long-term goals is to do some directing. Is this still on your agenda?

At some point, yeah.

Do you write your own screenplay material, or would you rather helm someone else’s project to start with?

Erm… Either way, really. I’ve written my own stuff, which never got made. I got close to finishing a script, but now I’d have to completely rewrite it.

So your experience with Run, Ronnie, Run [the Mr. Show spin-off movie Cross wrote with Odenkirk, which was butchered by New Line Cinema after spending two years in development hell] didn’t put you off?

Oh, no. I wish we’d directed that, man. We’d have made it a lot better. And funnier.

You’ve spoken of your admiration for Greg Palast, and also said you enjoyed reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. What are you reading at the moment?

Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett. I’m about halfway through it. It’s really interesting: He’s a philosopher, and it’s about the idea of religion as a natural phenomenon, studying that. It’s great, really good.

Lastly, one of the most popular David Cross videos on YouTube shows you dancing onstage with Jim Belushi, courtesy of the Chunklet guys. How did that come about?

I was in Martha’s Vineyard with some friends of mine, and on the ferry over there we saw that he was going to be playing and were like “Oh, shit! We’ve got to go to this!” We went to this little club, roughly the size of the 100 Club, by the airport. That motherfucker had the audacity to charge $40 a ticket to see his shitty cover-band. And then my friend had a little camera, and I was like “Okay, get ready!” I got up onstage and got kicked off twice.

It looked as though they threw you out at some point.

Yeah, after the second time they kicked me out of the club.

Thanks a lot for coming out to do this, David. It was very kind of you.

No problem, man.

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Many thanks to Claire Walker for helping to arrange the interview, the guys at Drowned in Sound for allowing me to schedule it under the aegis of their site and, of course, David himself for taking the time to answer my asinine questions. Oh, and the photograph which accompanies this piece is a Sub Pop promo picture.